About spears (generally being extremely sub-par)

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Dagothwave#0949 が発言:

Hello.

For the last few weeks i've been trying out various build ideas i've had for spears that weren't LS or Bleed and most of them turned out absolutely miserable - an what few didn't are rather high-effort for how mediocre they actually are, no matter how much I optimized the tree and gear.

(Granted, my Twisters build with the best projectile speed and damage i could manage was rather solid for mapping, but totally inadequate against most pinnacle bosses due to the damage cap imposed by the internal cooldown and the random nature of the skill)

I remember Jonathan saying something about Lightning Spear not being the only way to play with spears in his interview for the patch 0.2.1. Which I, at the time, was inclined to agree with, since my previous experiments with building off-meta were all more or less succesful, and I am usually the first person to bash on lazy/meta-driven approach. I love combos. I like the charge mechanic. I also like chaining less popular mechanics together into something smooth (like running a Ritualist with a Fireflower, Hateforge, Bijouborne and Ngamahu's Chosen).

...so I was greatly disappointed to find out that somehow even the longest and the most complicated and beautiful spear combos (that aren't LS or bleed) are massively inferior to...well, most everything. Including the basic (frenzied) Spear Throw. And when I say "inferior" what I really mean "barely playable" by t15 or pinnacle content. There just isn't enough DPS. You get swarmed. Or spend literal 15-20 minutes on a single Xesht.

The numbers on the abilities seem impressive on paper, but are held back by the slow/conditional nature of said abilities and low weapon damage of spears themselves.


Such a high-effort kit can't be that unrewarding.
Especially considering survival isn't actually one of your strongest suits unless you go for eva/es nodes, I suppose (although that has more to do with outrageously high monster damage and the lack of viable alternative defensive options). Parry doesn't help you at all when you need help the most, unfortunately.

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Granted, I did try an authentic all-evasion + acrobatics + 3400 points Olroth's flask and Husk of Dreams and it wasn't terrible. I even managed to get 76% evasion somehow. But it's certainly very high-effort (as you have to track your Guard) and even the 80% chance of saving your life flask charges and a lot of charge regen do not guarantee not running out of sips. At which point you're left with only you base hp pool which even with acrobatics is likely to be extremely hazardous.

Said numbers need to be significantly higher. Alternatively, the conditions themselves need to be easier. Because even the most "spammable" and potentially powerful abilities such as Primal Strikes still have a lot of downtime - I especially dislike how the shock consumption part of the skill still applies for a second or two even as the target literally stands in shocked ground. And not even the most expedited charge generation methods are free from downtime either - and can be rendered ineffectual by the infuriating "steal charges" mechanic, too. Which, by the way, makes Simulacrum completely impossible to beat with certain builds. Which isn't as bad for most other weapon types, but spears heavily rely on Frenzy Charges, so...

I would say that mechanic either needs to be either removed completely or limited to a single charge per proc. Preferably the former. I don't believe punishing the players that are already running a very conditional build is the way to go. The need for charges themselves is a nerf enough on its own. Of course, it doesn't take a genius to click Sniper's Mark between attacks...except...


Crits are the most appalling numbers problem spears have. Not even running the Amazon crit passive with something to the tune of 1700 extra accuracy AND a Seaglass Spear with +4% AND every major accuracy node AND every major crit node AND a souped-up Time-lost jewel with crit AND the most potent crit support gems... managed to bring it above 60%. And this number is the result of my direct experimentation I had to do, because the tooltip for "crit from accuracy" clearly was lying about how much I was actually getting from that passive.

It's even worse if you are using spears on a class that isn't Amazon. Then you're probably going to get something like 40-45% tops, and even then at a huge skillpoint/gearing cost. I don't know why this is the case, to be honest, but that certainly explains why Tangletongue is so popular.

Thank you for your attention. Plz buff.