Elemental damage seems like utter over kill for health-based characters

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nocebo#2432 が発言:

The source doesn't matter, it seems that lightning damage is somehow the main culprit here, although all elemental damage seems to be very much overtuned vs health.

Not exactly. Lightning dmg movesets usually have a bigger gap between minimum and maximum dmg roll. Let's look at doryany's elite data on poe2.db at lvl 65:

Fire version:
226.9 to 340.3 fire dmg
average = 283.6
range = 113.4 (40% of average dmg)

Lightning version:
218.2 to 654.5 lightning dmg
average = 436.35
range = 436.3 (100% of average dmg)

Forget about the raw average dmg, I only showed that to calc the % between rolls range and average dmg.

As you can see, the %range is a lot bigger with lightning movesets, so it can deal bigger spikes of dmgs when got bad luck.

For example, if you have the same moveset that would deal average dmg of 100. if it were a fire moveset, it would have a range of 80 - 120. That means that fire moveset would have a maximum dmg of 120 on a single hit.

On the other hand, if it were a lightning moveset with the same average dmg, it would have a range of 50 - 150. So that lightning moveset would have a maximum dmg of 150 on a single hit (25% more than a fire version).

And we aren't mention shock yet. It would be more 20% dmg for lightning dmg.

Yeah, lightning is more spiky by nature, but why would one forget the average damage?

When you add crits to lightning damage, you really end up in to a "bad place".

One quick fix solution would enable health to mitigate elemental damage with better efficiency vs CI, e.g. with 110-120% of resists.

Bold to assume armour is great. Try to build a character with dual wield or 2handed weapon.
You think physical damage mitigation is "fine" because your shield NULLIFIES the damage.

Armor itself is so bad top players often just drop armour and get ES or Evasion once they hit block cap.

I feel your pain. It feels like there are mobs in maps that hit 20x times harder than all the others, or the death explosions hit so hard it's like it pays no attention to armor or evasion. It's going to cost me so much to change to evade/ES, but not sure Ill have a choice.

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Kraivan#1745 が発言:

Bold to assume armour is great. Try to build a character with dual wield or 2handed weapon.
You think physical damage mitigation is "fine" because your shield NULLIFIES the damage.

Armor itself is so bad top players often just drop armour and get ES or Evasion once they hit block cap.

Armour's physical mitigation is fine indeed. A Titan with ~4.5k life and ~12k armour rating can tank any pure physical slam that doesn't have Overwhelm (Trialmaster). Except maybe T4 Xesht's palm slam (which I didn't test obviously). Also, movesets with multiple small hits, like Zarokh's skills, are meaningless. You can't even feel them and they almost don't drop honour bar if you have honour resist.

The real problem was a lack of alternatives against elemental dmg on those builds. Even that node that applies armour to fire dmg doesn't work well due to how dmg mitigation is calculated on those cases. You needed to rely on max resist stack which was really hard/expensive during 0.1.

Then all that discussion became meaningless with 0.2, with the addition of Smith of Kitava, which "solved those problems" for warriors without much investment. A Titan with a lot of currency to spend on can still be tankier though.

Also, about "drop armour and get ES or Evasion", you can build really tanky pure ES builds indeed, but not pure Evasion. If you are going to stack Evasion, it must be "ES and Evasion". Pure evasion (life based) is even worse than pure armour (life based) currently. The main problem with evasion, other that how unreliable it is even with entropy system, is how hard is to stack life. Armour base can stack STR so they can reach good amount of life, but you can't do that on evasion chars. That is why all evasion builds are running hybrids life + ES (or glasscannon on softcore, but all that subject wouldn't matter in this case).

Currently sitting as a warbringer with 7k armour and 2.4k hp.
Tooltip says 72% reduction.
Just got pulverized by anything. (and have 7% dmg reduction on shield)

Tried out Vengeful Fury to get more armour. (rage also increase armour)
Using berserker spirit gem, and I got +350 armour. What an utter waste of skillpoints.

You just get more armour?
How exactly? Just buy out the problem with trading?

In 0.1 I had 14k armoru and still got oneshotted by physical attacks.
Sadly since the game is throwing you so much regeneration (regen, recourp, leech, flask) the only combat is a thug of war of your healthbar top and bottom point.
If you have enough stats, you just walk through the map.

Not sure how is it meaningful combat to get lucky and just statstack until the problem isn't a problem anymore?
But I guess I must GitGud(gear)

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Kraivan#1745 が発言:

Currently sitting as a warbringer with 7k armour and 2.4k hp.
Tooltip says 72% reduction.
Just got pulverized by anything. (and have 7% dmg reduction on shield)

Tried out Vengeful Fury to get more armour. (rage also increase armour)
Using berserker spirit gem, and I got +350 armour. What an utter waste of skillpoints.

You just get more armour?
How exactly? Just buy out the problem with trading?

In 0.1 I had 14k armoru and still got oneshotted by physical attacks.
Sadly since the game is throwing you so much regeneration (regen, recourp, leech, flask) the only combat is a thug of war of your healthbar top and bottom point.
If you have enough stats, you just walk through the map.

Not sure how is it meaningful combat to get lucky and just statstack until the problem isn't a problem anymore?
But I guess I must GitGud(gear)

Armour without enough life is useless. You could have 20k armour, but with only 2.4k life you would still get one-shot by many things on endgame. That doesn't mean that it is bad for physical dmg though, it is just that it is not a simple parameter like ES, which is basically "blue life" directly.

For example, if you have 14k armour and you eat a slam of 5k pure physical dmg, which is crazy high for poe2 standard, you still have a ~22% dmg reduction. That means that you would survive that with 4k life. That means 1k extra eHP and that is the worst scenario. It is a lot more when you think about 2 hits of 2.5k, for example (~36% reduction = survive with 3.3k life).

All those numbers are useless only because they don't apply to elemental dmg, and that is the problem. Specially when magic and rare monsters that deal heavy physical slam can present modifies that add elemental dmg. Not even mentioning map mods that add elemental dmg. Regardless, the amount of physical dmg reduction is totally fine.

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DEvil27#6183 が発言:

Armour's physical mitigation is fine indeed. A Titan with ~4.5k life and ~12k armour rating can tank any pure physical slam that doesn't have Overwhelm (Trialmaster).

You are tone-deaf to the conversation. Neither 4.5k Life nor 12k armor is anywhere in the ballpark of baseline stats. Both are examples of the stats being being pushed to an extreme AND EVEN THEN you concede it can't hold up against every physical threat.

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LeFlesh#9979 が発言:

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DEvil27#6183 が発言:

Armour's physical mitigation is fine indeed. A Titan with ~4.5k life and ~12k armour rating can tank any pure physical slam that doesn't have Overwhelm (Trialmaster).

You are tone-deaf to the conversation. Neither 4.5k Life nor 12k armor is anywhere in the ballpark of baseline stats. Both are examples of the stats being being pushed to an extreme AND EVEN THEN you concede it can't hold up against every physical threat.

Nah, A full build Titan can easily get that. Actually those were the numbers I got on my char during 0.1 playing on SSF.

https://poe2.ninja/builds/hardcoressf/character/DEvil27-6183/DEvil_SameButDifferent?i=14&search=class%3DTitan

Armour is only 9k on that link because I changed my shield to something with lower armour rating but with 7% flat physical DR.

Obviously, most classes/ascendancies would have a hard time to reach that, but it wouldn't make any sense to talk about the subject if it weren't in a scenario with some synergy anyway.

As I said, tone-deaf. Please refrain from spamming the thread with further nonsense