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The issue with this entire chain of comments is that it's a common tactic by the pro-xp loss crowd to derail a conversation into theory crafting build improvements and away from the principle that people don't like losing progress that they've earned in prior maps.
It's not theory crafting. It's simple math. 5 or 10 additional points out of 100 CANNOT provide significant improvements when the game calculates (almost) everything based on additive stacking. You simply run into massive diminishing returns, IF there are even any nodes worth taking. For many builds, there simply isn't anything good in reach at this point. Of course, all of this operates on the logical assumption that the most efficient nodes are taken first and left to the theoretical last 5 points. (Duh!)
You have no point. Reality disagrees with you.
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投稿者Skollvaldr#5851日時 2025/06/05 12:35:06
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Show it, show your tree. Prove us wrong.
Don't you know while playing bleed-rake amazon how following passives affects your build? You could check poe2 ninja if you want to see the heatmap. Is like two the most picked passives in tree. Are they makes your character stronger? They are.
Or you could unspec Hearstopping and Heartbraking and play without them.
Invalid argument. You have 90 points to take those amazing nodes. By the time you reach level 90 they should already be taken. Nobody leaves the really good stuff for the last 10 points that they don't even have.
You're making up a bogus bad faith argument that doesn't correspond to reality.
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投稿者Skollvaldr#5851日時 2025/06/05 12:38:46
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Show it, show your tree. Prove us wrong.
Don't you know while playing bleed-rake amazon how following passives affects your build? You could check poe2 ninja if you want to see the heatmap. Is like two the most picked passives in tree. Are they makes your character stronger? They are.
Or you could unspec Hearstopping and Heartbraking and play without them.
Invalid argument. You have 90 points to take those amazing nodes. By the time you reach level 90 they should already be taken. Nobody leaves the really good stuff for the last 10 points that they don't even have.
You're making up a bogus bad faith argument that doesn't correspond to reality.
Thus 2 passives were bring as an example how 5 extra passives could make your character stronger. I would agree that it could be called as an invalid argument due to the fact that some passives are strongly recommended to be picked in a tree like thus 2.
If you want to see how it works in more real situations - go to poe ninja, select 95 lvl characters (better 90) and take 5-10 extra passive in tree. Is it will make your character stronger or not? Ofc it will, it's that simple.
10% more damage for 5 passives > 0% more damage without them
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投稿者ForsesGIT#6499日時 2025/06/05 12:50:47
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it should remain but not as punishing or should increase incrementally if you die quickly in succession. 10% straight off the bat is too high.
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投稿者PugLoverNY#0623日時 2025/06/05 12:53:49
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Thus 2 passives were bring as an example how 5 extra passives could make your character stronger. I would agree that it could be called as an invalid argument due to the fact that some passives are strongly recommended to be picked in a tree like thus 2.
If you want to see how it works in more real situations - go to poe ninja, select 95 lvl characters (better 90) and take 5-10 extra passive in tree. Is it will make your character stronger or not? Ofc it will, it's that simple.
10% more damage for 5 passives > 0% more damage without them
Save your energy. People arguing in bad faith will constantly demand concrete proof or evidence from you, while making all their points in the abstract. If you give a concrete example, they will pick it apart into the tiniest pieces to find the one situation it is not valid in; and if you give an abstract example, they will simply circle back to demanding concrete examples, or claim that not providing that makes your argument dismissible.
They will simply ignore the fact that every point can have an impact on pathing and the notables or keystones you can reach; as shown by the fact that many PoB builds will do a respec at higher levels due to gaining more worth from optimized pathing available with more skill points. The issue is that this would no longer be "simple math," and especially not math supporting their point.
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投稿者dreamstate42#3955日時 2025/06/05 13:09:33
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Thus 2 passives were bring as an example how 5 extra passives could make your character stronger. I would agree that it could be called as an invalid argument due to the fact that some passives are strongly recommended to be picked in a tree like thus 2.
If you want to see how it works in more real situations - go to poe ninja, select 95 lvl characters (better 90) and take 5-10 extra passive in tree. Is it will make your character stronger or not? Ofc it will, it's that simple.
10% more damage for 5 passives > 0% more damage without them
Save your energy. People arguing in bad faith will constantly demand concrete proof or evidence from you, while making all their points in the abstract. If you give a concrete example, they will pick it apart into the tiniest pieces to find the one situation it is not valid in; and if you give an abstract example, they will simply circle back to demanding concrete examples, or claim that not providing that makes your argument dismissible.
They will simply ignore the fact that every point can have an impact on pathing and the notables or keystones you can reach; as shown by the fact that many PoB builds will do a respec at higher levels due to gaining more worth from optimized pathing available with more skill points. The issue is that this would no longer be "simple math," and especially not math supporting their point.
I'll do as you suggest then. Thank you mate :3
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投稿者ForsesGIT#6499日時 2025/06/05 13:13:16
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Save your energy. People arguing in bad faith will constantly demand concrete proof or evidence from you, while making all their points in the abstract. If you give a concrete example, they will pick it apart into the tiniest pieces to find the one situation it is not valid in; and if you give an abstract example, they will simply circle back to demanding concrete examples, or claim that not providing that makes your argument dismissible.
They will simply ignore the fact that every point can have an impact on pathing and the notables or keystones you can reach; as shown by the fact that many PoB builds will do a respec at higher levels due to gaining more worth from optimized pathing available with more skill points. The issue is that this would no longer be "simple math," and especially not math supporting their point.
You're making a claim and then can't provide concrete proof. Oh dear, if only science would work that way. But sadly, it doesn't.
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投稿者bloomhead#3858日時 2025/06/05 13:36:17保護観察中
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I've seen a lot of bad ideas in my life, but this one takes the cake.
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投稿者Arrcanos#7987日時 2025/06/05 13:47:14
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lol months later and we still whining about reasonable penality, rage quit alrdy ffs.
Seriously, no. Xp loss is fine. Just go and ask for an easy league with no death penality, then go and ask for difficulty nerfs then ask for better loot then ask for lowering the amount of xp needed or whatever make you feel better. 10% (more like 2,5%) xp loss on death penelity is perfectly fine for softcore.
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投稿者BigBeuss#5956日時 2025/06/05 13:50:52
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10% more damage for 5 passives > 0% more damage without them
Well, duh. Nobody is saying that these additional points provide zero benefit. The point is that this benefit is negligible and astronomically overshadowed by upgrades to your gear. Those points NEVER make or break a build. They are fluff that can buy a bit of QoL. That's it. Entirely optional. Not mandatory for any content. Not a justification to remove EXP loss.
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投稿者Skollvaldr#5851日時 2025/06/05 13:56:17
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