Is the fight over XP Loss lost?

Ah, yes. It's that time of the "league" again. Don't get me wrong i've been having a lot of fun with my Lightning Spear Amazon so far. I think POE2 is on a good path. Sure there is a ton of stuff that still needs to be adressed, but from what i know from several interviews that Jonathan and Mark did they have most of that on their radar. I know stuff takes time.
But i've reached the point where dying takes away XP i had to earn in hours of mapping, sucking fun and motivation right out of me, so that it is just not feasable to continue.
Not all the time but very often there is nothing i could have done about the death. My resistances are maxed. I play SSF so i can't trade for better gear. I'm not getting loot drops that would improve my current gear. The vendors don't have anything useful and my currency is not enough to do serious crafting.

I already see the comments flash before my eyes: "Just dont die", "It has to be a challenge", "Without XP penalty it's too easy to reach lvl 100", "Without XP loss people stop playing at 100 and whine for higher level cap".
Well, challenge is a very subjective question. It heavily depends on the character and build you are playing. It also depends a lot on luck due to random loot drops and crafting outcomes. Not even mentioning out of the blue one shots and uneven balancing. I don't think most people would reach lvl 100 easy, because of the exponential increase in experience needed for the next level you still need to put in a lot of playtime which some people just don't have.
I know there is an omen that reduces xp loss. But i've never seen one myself. Also using that for every map would probably be unattainably costly. You don't know when you are going to die in advance after all.

I have a very hard time understanding why some players take a stand for keeping the XP penalty. To me it is very simple: Loss aversion. I grinded for XP and the game is taking it away after the fact. Kinda like when Sony deleted those tv shows people had paid for from their libraries. It just sucks.
Making constant even if only small progress on the xp bar towards the next skill point is such a great motivation to keep grinding while you wait for a good drop and check the vendor for new gear. Why take that away?
What concerns me is that the whole XP loss issue is never mentioned by the devs. So i am not sure they will address it at some point. Yet there is a constant stream of forum post that complain about this.

There are so many ways to improve:
-Limit XP loss to the map you are dying in. That still prevents level progress but doesn't feel so shitty. And implementing probably takes minutes.
-Just make a softcore mode. Call it the "Baby pee pants mode" so elite players can feel better for playing standard. I really don't care about that type of stuff. I just want to have fun with the game.
-Make no XP loss part of Solo Self Found. Trade is already like a cheat code in my opinion. So SSF is difficult enough.
-Link it to how juiced the map is. Like with 6 mods you loose 10%, 4 mods 6%, 2 mods 4% and a blank waystone has no XP loss. That way players can choose how they want to play. High risk, high reward or play it safe?
-Go the dark souls route. When you die you drop the XP and can pick it back up (if you still have portals left). Keeping death unpleasant and risky but giving the player a bit more control.
-I mean heck you can even add Atlas Nodes with "Reduce XP loss by 50%" so with two or three nodes i could lower the penalty down. And players that don't care can do something more useful with their atlas points.

And there are a ton more ways to improve, many of which have been discussed in other posts. Just flat out removing it is also possible of course. Just make it bearable and stop telling me to "Git gud". You know i actually love the dark souls games. But there is a big difference: Darks souls is challenging, POE is punishing.

And this is early access. This is just the right time to try it out and see what happens. I always thought that player agency and choice was a big POE principle. Isn't that what all the trees are about? So why not give players a bit more choice over this issue?

I will not be shouting and screaming: "Worst game ever. I will quit for good. It's a scam". That would be disingenuous. I played almost 300 hours since launch. I'm not an idiot i obviously had fun. The campaign is for the most part fantastic. Especially act 1. I'm looking forward to the rest of it. Even if it feels a bit too long for a league based game. By the way campaign does not have XP loss and is universally praised. Coincidence? ;-)
But hey, if the game would go way down the drain or not improve at all (which i don't think will be the case, the devs are very talented) the money was still well worth it for the amount of fun i had.

It's just sad that the XP loss makes the game unfun at a certain point when it really doesn't have to be. I still haven't seen any of the endgame bosses for myself (breach, expedition etc.)

Anyway, enough venting. What do you guys think? You can tell me i'm full of shit. I don't mind.

Have a nice day!

Its a core mechanic from POE1.

No other game has that.

Anywhere I see this topic I'm adding my suggestion to please both parties in the debate.

Move the XP loss start to 90.

It's a win win in the end.

I'm lvl 96 and there is just no point trying to lvl beyond. Sad but that is reality.

Yes even with omens.

Well put. I agree. It's an old outdated form of progression stall that should have disappeared long ago, especially in games that have evolved the end game grind the way all these games have these days.

But, if you really look at GGG's game's, they are largely stuck on a design, from the past.

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rhalbhub#0570 が発言:

Anywhere I see this topic I'm adding my suggestion to please both parties in the debate.

Move the XP loss start to 90.

It's a win win in the end.

No. Not unless ALL THINGS ARE BALANCED AND DEATH FEELS FAIR!

Until that happens, stealing peoples progress is pure BS.

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Kodavor#1200 が発言:

"

rhalbhub#0570 が発言:

Anywhere I see this topic I'm adding my suggestion to please both parties in the debate.

Move the XP loss start to 90.

It's a win win in the end.

No. Not unless ALL THINGS ARE BALANCED AND DEATH FEELS FAIR!

Until that happens, stealing peoples progress is pure BS.

Well from my perspective you got 1 camp of players that likes the difficulty and punishment and sees 100 as some crown jewel achievement and as-is, is definitely one. Let them have that but at the same time allow a player to get much farther without a massive amount of frustration. I thought my char was pretty powerful at reaching 90. But there is a big diff between 70 to 90. And a lot of sweat and frustration in 20 levels of deaths. Last night I had 3 deaths at 76 while in the final running so I know the pain.

I firmly believe death will never feel fair in this game. It was in .2 and will exist here too. Rituals feel way worse I die way more in those than I ever did and we have more room to navigate. They got tuned up for sure.

Other solution is 3 Difficulty:
Hardcore [XP bonus/loss greater Loot]
Normal [XP bonus/loss slight loot buff]
Softcore [XP normal no loss - Loot std]

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...By the way campaign does not have XP loss and is universally praised. Coincidence? ;-) ...

This is also a solid point.


Why not tell all the players that you will STEAL their progress from the get go ? Why the "Bait n Switch"?

now that you don't lose maps on death xp loss is even more important to make death something you want to avoid. I really hate corpse rush gaming.

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rocker15#4714 が発言:

now that you don't lose maps on death xp loss is even more important to make death something you want to avoid. I really hate corpse rush gaming.

Corpse rushing? The F are you on about? You have 6 chances MAX to overcome the challenge.