Five Weeks into 0.2.0, POE2 is Down 93.2% Players All Time & 83.9% from Patch Launch

"

Kraythax#2592 が発言:

All time Peak: 578,562
0.2.0 Peak: 245,870
20 min ago: 39,791

These numbers are a staggering indictment of "The Vision" of Path of Exile 2. They started this ride 5 years ago to make an expansion and sequel to Path of Exile 1 and what they have created is a significant retrograde. The number of lessons from POE1 Un-learned is just staggering. Economy, balance, atlas, its crazy how bad they got it. If this had been the first ARPG by the company you could understand it but it wasn't. They have been making ARPGs for 12 years. No one can claim, "Oh it's Early Access so its fine." That's just "copium". The reality is that there are key decisions that have been behind the decline. Its not bugs or crashes, everyone expects that in EA. Its just plain unfathomable decisions being made.

Decisions like:

1. Let's create a new kind of game that mixes Souls Like combat with 90,000,251 enemies coming at the player at once.
2. Let's just throw the ENTIRE end game atlas which is recognized as brilliant in the trash bin and start over.
3. Let's not combine delve, maps and the atlas to create a truly rewarding endless powerful end game but instead toss it all.
4. Let's just abandon the ENTIRE crafting system that keeps the POE1 economy going because some players found it complex.
5. Let's take the ruthless playstyle, supported by 1% of the POE1 community and make it mandatory; no movement skills, anemic drops.
6. Let's completely screw up the gem system where players constantly were looking for that next socketed item because some players couldn't get 6 links and dump it for a new system that NO ONE tested.
7. Let's prevent melee chars from using brutality on more than one skill because the new gem system has some bad holes we cant fix.
8. Let's make all loot entirely random and even maps random. We want all random so that no one can have the gear tuned the way they want.
9. Let's redesign the passive tree to make it not 4 nodes to move around the parts of the tree but 30 to keep people imprisoned in their class.
10. Let's over-tag every skill binding it to weapons and heavy stat requirements because a warrior playing righteous fire must be stopped AT ALL COST in POE2, we will dictate the proper builds thank you.
11. Let's make skills so over tagged that you are imprisoned in your class, we CANNOT ALLOW BUILD DIVERSITY. For example, you MUST use nothing or a quarterstaff to use an unarmed skill like killing palm.
12. Let's make the campaign that was considered a tutorial in POE1 that people blasted through very extremely tedious and long.

These are just the bad decisions I can think of off the top of my head. I am sure others will add more in replies. Who on earth was calling these shots?

Frankly the only people happy with the game are a very small subset of customers (seems less than 5%) and Activision / Blizzard. In the run up to EA Blizzard got pooped on by making some snarky comments because they were concerned POE2 would cut into D4 revenue. They have since fallen out of their chairs laughing.

GGG could have taken POE1, put in a new graphics engine, an entire texture overhaul, a new story campaign with lots of cut scenes, trimmed off a few bad systems, combined delve and maps into a single endgame, added tutorial characters and spent the rest of the budget on marketing. That would have guaranteed success. But instead we are where we are. A broken game that the POE1 vets mostly don't want to play, that the drivebys have mostly abandoned for other titles and all that is left to do is MTX monetize the hell out of it and release it on iPhone and Android to make it like the other TenCent products.

I spent $480 (plus tax) of my money on the Liberator of Wraeclast pack, before I even saw the game because I had so much belief in GGG. But you forgot the most important part of the vision. YOUR vision isn't nearly as important as the customer's vision. Unless this is some pet project that is disposable, customers matter. And in the process you have killed POE1 with inattention.

It's time to reset. Re-eval. Call an all-hands meeting and say "guys this isn't working" and begin doing what you planned in the first place, make a SEQUEL to Path of Exile.

"

Fhrek#4437 が発言:

"

Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 が発言:

Isn't ziz the guy who cheats in hardcore, I mean logouts macro heh

The real question is... who doesn't do that? Seems the ALF+F4 strategy is so naturally used to skip dying in Sekhemas Floor 4 Boss to skip have to re-do the whole waste of time that is to get in there that it should be a in-game feature by now.

"

Kerchunk#7797 が発言:

"

xPimousse#3057 が発言:

That said, POE2 got massive income coming from the paid EA and supporter packs. This income will most likely soften the terrible results coming from the vision

I don't understand what makes you think there's anything to soften -- PoE2 EA has been a massive success for GGG - larger than they ever expected. They don't really need any more income between now and 1.0. The funding they secured was more than enough to cover the remainder of development and the marketing of the full release. Anything they make in the meantime will be gravy on top. These are not "terrible results" by any measure.

"

xPimousse#3057 が発言:

95% of the playerbase left and this is really bad from a financial POV. At this rate they won't able to sustain "the vision" (even though nobody wants it anyway except a few ultras).
GGG decision showed us that they are entitled to this "vision" and won't even drift away from it.
This leads to 2 consequences :

1. GGG won't change POE2 game direction unless they are forced to do it. On top of that, the studio blatantly ignore whatever isn't matching with their ideal (cf mutliples interviews from John).

2. As any company, both GGG and Tencent have for goal to make money. Usually, important decisions regarding business strats are being made after the annual return wich is being held early march for GGG.
That said, POE2 got massive income coming from the paid EA and supporter packs. This income will most likely soften the terrible results coming from the vision, and the lack of income associated.
This means we won't see any real changes until april/may 2026 unless the financial metrics show a real danger for the studio and Tencent decide to snap off POE2 direction.

So stop blaming the current state of the game as it won't have any results. Instead ask for more of this nonsense such as adding hunger metric slowing you down even more when you're hungry with a walk/run system like D2, implying a food system, reverting the portal update and go back to a single one etc. Even though the game is in a bad state it can be even worse. Your only hope is to see the game crumble and rott to a point where GGG/Tencent can't ignore the situation anymore.

"

B00b#4465 が発言:

"

xPimousse#3057 が発言:

95% of the playerbase left and this is really bad from a financial POV. At this rate they won't able to sustain "the vision" (even though nobody wants it anyway except a few ultras).
GGG decision showed us that they are entitled to this "vision" and won't even drift away from it.
This leads to 2 consequences :

1. GGG won't change POE2 game direction unless they are forced to do it. On top of that, the studio blatantly ignore whatever isn't matching with their ideal (cf mutliples interviews from John).

2. As any company, both GGG and Tencent have for goal to make money. Usually, important decisions regarding business strats are being made after the annual return wich is being held early march for GGG.
That said, POE2 got massive income coming from the paid EA and supporter packs. This income will most likely soften the terrible results coming from the vision, and the lack of income associated.
This means we won't see any real changes until april/may 2026 unless the financial metrics show a real danger for the studio and Tencent decide to snap off POE2 direction.

So stop blaming the current state of the game as it won't have any results. Instead ask for more of this nonsense such as adding hunger metric slowing you down even more when you're hungry with a walk/run system like D2, implying a food system, reverting the portal update and go back to a single one etc. Even though the game is in a bad state it can be even worse. Your only hope is to see the game crumble and rott to a point where GGG/Tencent can't ignore the situation anymore.

If this is GGG's goal, retention of players, I think they are misguiding by statistic numbers to show. They can finish the game in two days, two weeks or two months. Most players quit before the end game, anyway.

But what really matters is how many people returns after new seasons.

Forcing players to stay longer can be counterproductive. If players feel that reaching the end game takes too much of their time, they may quit in frustration. They just get bored and move on to many games they have in their stack.

The average time of play game should be around 40 hours. This is corroborated with many studies. Less it may perceived as too short and not fulfilling. Too long and most players quit.

Some games may extend this time with side quest, but if the player wants to finish the core game it should be around those 40 hours. Other games keep the retention as social hubs, it is the only way. Path of Exile 1 has some of this social hub traits, as players can trade and organize expeditions to clean maps.

But as a solo game. Forcing players to overextended campaign and end game grinding is not the way to go.

"

ShaDarkLord#6528 が発言:

"

B00b#4465 が発言:

"

xPimousse#3057 が発言:

95% of the playerbase left and this is really bad from a financial POV. At this rate they won't able to sustain "the vision" (even though nobody wants it anyway except a few ultras).
GGG decision showed us that they are entitled to this "vision" and won't even drift away from it.
This leads to 2 consequences :

1. GGG won't change POE2 game direction unless they are forced to do it. On top of that, the studio blatantly ignore whatever isn't matching with their ideal (cf mutliples interviews from John).

2. As any company, both GGG and Tencent have for goal to make money. Usually, important decisions regarding business strats are being made after the annual return wich is being held early march for GGG.
That said, POE2 got massive income coming from the paid EA and supporter packs. This income will most likely soften the terrible results coming from the vision, and the lack of income associated.
This means we won't see any real changes until april/may 2026 unless the financial metrics show a real danger for the studio and Tencent decide to snap off POE2 direction.

So stop blaming the current state of the game as it won't have any results. Instead ask for more of this nonsense such as adding hunger metric slowing you down even more when you're hungry with a walk/run system like D2, implying a food system, reverting the portal update and go back to a single one etc. Even though the game is in a bad state it can be even worse. Your only hope is to see the game crumble and rott to a point where GGG/Tencent can't ignore the situation anymore.

If this is GGG's goal, retention of players, I think they are misguiding by statistic numbers to show. They can finish the game in two days, two weeks or two months. Most players quit before the end game, anyway.

But what really matters is how many people returns after new seasons.

Forcing players to stay longer can be counterproductive. If players feel that reaching the end game takes too much of their time, they may quit in frustration. They just get bored and move on to many games they have in their stack.

The average time of play game should be around 40 hours. This is corroborated with many studies. Less it may perceived as too short and not fulfilling. Too long and most players quit.

Some games may extend this time with side quest, but if the player wants to finish the core game it should be around those 40 hours. Other games keep the retention as social hubs, it is the only way. Path of Exile 1 has some of this social hub traits, as players can trade and organize expeditions to clean maps.

But as a solo game. Forcing players to overextended campaign and end game grinding is not the way to go.

POE 2 is much closer to an MMO than a solo ARPG and it’s built around endless endgame. Meanwhile, the target audience is not TikTok teens with 15-second attention spans. It’s mostly adult men 30+ who want depth.

The life cycle of POE 2 is seasonal. This means there must be enough content to stay engaged for the whole league — but also 100% of it should be realistically completable by the end of the season. On average, POE 2 players spend ~5 hours per day, 6 days a week, for 12 weeks — that’s around 360–400 hours per season. Content should be balanced around that range.

Campaign acts should take no more than 12 hours, or there should be a campaign skip for alts. Otherwise, the entire season becomes locked to 1–2 characters, killing replayability. And before someone says “but the acts are good,” ask yourself — how would it feel to replay even your favorite meal three times a day for a full month? You’d burn out quick.

The main mistake POE 2 makes is trying to seem bigger by artificially stretching every part of the game.

This has already been discussed in hundreds of posts, and yet:
• Giant empty zones with pointless dead ends
• Movement speed feels disproportionate to zone size
• Nerfed player damage across the board
• Enemies with bloated HP
• RNG in every system, slot-machine crafting
• Tower mechanics that strengthen map progression

All of this is an attempt to inflate playtime artificially, like the game doesn't respect your time. I understand the game is only half a year old — but the issue isn’t lack of content.

Then we got 0.2 — and everything got worse.
Not harder in a meaningful way, but more tedious and exhausting.

You can’t just “blast through” acts anymore — you’re forced to overlevel and overgear, but with reduced loot drops, that means reseting the same zones 20–30 times just to make a boss fight take less than 30 minutes and not run out of flasks. Now imagine doing that 2–3 more times per league for alts, and then doing it again next season. Over and over again

Real builds and loot only start becoming available around level 60, when you finally get to replace filler skills — most early skills are poorly balanced or completely non-functional. Yet again, more artificial stretch.

Yes, they fixed a few Act 3 dead ends — but only after several big streamers pointed it out in interviews.
Jonathan wasn’t even aware mob HP had been increased in acts — which shows how disconnected he is from his own game.
- Every spell was nerfed
- Loot was gutted
- First campaign playthroughs took 20+ hours
- Many players were already exhausted before even seeing endgame — not because it’s hard, but because it’s mind-numbingly boring.

And once they reached endgame? It simply dead by design:
1) Wisps dropped nothing
2) Exiles one-shot well-built characters and also dropped nothing
3) All T4 uniques became trash
4) Uberlate content felt pointless
5) Only T18 maps remained, dropping yellow rares, with a slot machine bench for “crafting”

Knowing you’d have to waste 20 more hours just to level another character you will avoid it.

Result:

Most players quit after 1–2 characters and reaching T18 maps.
POE 2 lost 90% of its playerbase within a month.
0.2 launched with half the numbers of 0.1 (280k vs 560k).
If nothing changes, 0.3 will be even lower.

By the time full release comes, if GGG doesn’t drastically change direction, the game may be completely irrelevant — dead on arrival.

Meanwhile, POE 1 is also bleeding players — no content updates for over a year, all dev focus shifted to POE 2. And I really doubt Tencent paid for GGG as an act of charity.

"

Because half or more of it is just opinion, and preference of certain gameplay type over other, not some gospel to be followed just because it happens to echo your sentiments. Example crafting, just because the guy wants it to be deterministic, doesn't mean everybody does, or that there is no logical reason for it to be rng as is now. Etc etc

"

Rabarbar_Lichy#7553 が発言:

Because half or more of it is just opinion, and preference of certain gameplay type over other, not some gospel to be followed just because it happens to echo your sentiments. Example crafting, just because the guy wants it to be deterministic, doesn't mean everybody does, or that there is no logical reason for it to be rng as is now. Etc etc