The real problem of XP LOSS.

I will also go ahead and add as i have before that

xp gain past lvl94+ is a bit slow, too slow... but its not something i'd make a topic to fuss over, but i most certainly would not give a damn about going 100 at this rate. its not worth it.

poe1 xp gain is a bit on the fast side.

something in between would be nice... so people are willing to grind to 100.

theres no way im grinding to 100 at this snail pace

ill also add that i dont like how fast xp gain is under 90, especially when 92-93 is enough to do 'everything'

I agree the xp loss sucks below 95. I think they should have it above 95 but at least leave the xp loss away until 95. If you want to grind it out to 100 then you should have an exp loss. I do think they should drop until until level 95 as they game already doesn't provide enough exp. For me it seems to slow down from 87 up. In poe 1 to get to 95 seems to a good number yes they extreme players get 100 easy but most people i would guess it was 95 tops and below. GGG please delete the exp loss below 95.

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Nyon#6673 が発言:

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

Exp loss is just bad and unfun, should be deleted. Such outdated mechanics don't belong in any game in the current year.

How can it be bad and outdated when it is still used in pretty much every good game thats being made.

Lmao what good games, I literally can't think of a single one that has this pointless time-wasting mechanic. And even in ancient games like Titan Quest you can get your lost exp back by going to where you last died. PoE just had outdated punishment mechanics from 20 years ago, this is why players are quitting. Game isn't fun, isn't rewarding and doesn't respect your time investment at all.

Imagine forcing hardcore mechanics onto softcore players, what a move. Ofc people will quit your game, why do you think they made a softcore character in the first place? Because they do not like the concept of losing progress on death, which is what exp loss is.

Nobody wants to be forced to play hardcore in softcore, that's just horrible game design. Game is down to 50k players even after patches and "loot fixes". This tells you that the fundamental endgame is way too punishing and boring, and that the campaign is such a snoozefest slog that most people quit before even getting through it.

And this game was supposed to be more friendly towards casual players lmao
Them putting in a resurrect limit on maps and exp loss still being in the game completely contradicts that and chases away so many players. Let people have their 6 portals already, or infinite portals I don't really care. An ARPG is a genre all about power fantasy and loot. It should be fun, not a constant vigilance playstyle where white mobs are raid bosses lol, we have enough dark souls clone games already.


All this could just be solved with some sliders,checkmarks or difficulty options in the game. Let people play however they want, and for those who seek a """hard game""" they can play ssf hc ruthless whatever.


Again, forcing hardcore mechanics onto your softcore playerbase(which is like 95% of all your players btw) is really disgusting, and a really bad move for player retention. As we see by the numbers lmao


There is no real reason why exp loss is still in this game, its just "cus D2 had it" and some mysterious vague concept of """friction""" that means nothing. Dying already isn't fun, nobody needs the game to be kicking them while they're already down. Death penalties like exp loss are meaningless, they serve 0 purpose except to waste your time. So they should just delete exp loss.

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LiMA6#0387 が発言:

I actually don't really play this league anymore, and it's not because of xp loss, it's simply because it's actually boring. People i talk to agree it's boring. None of the people i know of has complained to me about xp loss. People i know who start new chars, go from lvl1 to 90 within 2 days. poe2 is trash, for multitudes of other reasons, but most surely not xp loss.

People who get to level 90 in 2 days - is that supposed to be a good representation of the average/common player? This being your experience is a self report of being out-of-touch with most players.

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LiMA6#0387 が発言:

also, stop playing victim. telling you to figure out how to survive is not attacking. help was even offered. so its really pathetic.

You attacked earlier by saying players are playing like crap & there were some other things you have said. Telling people to stop dying does not in any way address the core complaint. The core complaint is, the demotivation of a death on the 31st map wiping out progress earned from the 30 maps before it.

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LiMA6#0387 が発言:

i should also add that, they did one very sensible change with xp loss, removed it from special mechanics/bosses. this makes perfect sense to give people a chance to learn the mechanics than to avoid taking any boss fights until leveled.

You said it here yourself & don't even realize. The obvious consequence of XP loss is unwillingness to engage with the content.

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Nyon#6673 が発言:

There is no proof indicating that this is the reason why people stopped playing.
If you watch any poe2 content at all then of all the magnitudes of reasons that content creators mention for why they didnt enjoy the league then this is never mentioned.

You are just taking the fact that the league was received poorly and then asserting that they must have the same opinion as you and trying to present it as proof. Exp loss has been in the game since poe1 and it hasnt stopped people from enjoying and praising leagues. So all the evidence is against you.

There are a couple of pieces of evidence actually. First, there are tons of threads of people complaining about it and saying this is the reason they stopped playing.

Second evidence visible in all POE leagues since the beginning - the majority of players choose to stop playing rather than stay engaged up to level 100. Do you deny this? Where is YOUR proof?

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SpankyKong#9805 が発言:

There's a reason POE 2 player count is now exactly in line as a continuation from the player count levels from POE 1

Guy peak daily players on Steam for an 0.2 version of an Early Access with absolutely zero ongoing marketing isn't the death knell you think it is. They're sitting on a literal mountain of cash from launch and as soon as they feel like they're approaching 1.0 they're going to start burning through it - handing fat stacks to Twitch and TikTok and YouTube influencers with literally tens of millions of combined followers who are going to be hearing daily how PoE2 1.0 is a can't miss experience and I know you will have all sorts of reasons why this isn't going to work but go ahead and bookmark this thread and we can come back here after 1.0 drops and see who had the right of it.

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

Lmao what good games, I literally can't think of a single one that has this pointless time-wasting mechanic. And even in ancient games like Titan Quest you can get your lost exp back by going to where you last died. PoE just had outdated punishment mechanics from 20 years ago, this is why players are quitting. Game isn't fun, isn't rewarding and doesn't respect your time investment at all.

All the dark souls, bloodborne, sekiro, elden ring, valheim, d2 ressurected.
And then you have games where you dont lose exp directly but you instead lose your equipment, crafting materials instead and your forced to corpse run to get them back like in enshrouded, ark, etc. And then even in the cases where you lose nothing upon death they will still "waste" your time in some other way, a good example of this is in World of Warcraft where you lose nothing upon death but the devs intentionally made the corpse runs very long so that it would feel impactful to die. The takeaway from this is that more or less every single game that has a similar type of exp gain has a mechanic like this so that your punished for dying and rewarded for playing well. It is a fundamental mechanic in games, you think its pointless because you know nothing about game development and your too ignorant to think for two seconds and realise that this exists in basicly every game you play.

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

Imagine forcing hardcore mechanics onto softcore players, what a move. Ofc people will quit your game, why do you think they made a softcore character in the first place? Because they do not like the concept of losing progress on death, which is what exp loss is.

Nobody wants to be forced to play hardcore in softcore, that's just horrible game design. Game is down to 50k players even after patches and "loot fixes". This tells you that the fundamental endgame is way too punishing and boring, and that the campaign is such a snoozefest slog that most people quit before even getting through it.

In hardcore you lose your character and have to start at level 1.
It isnt hardcore, stop being disingenuous and comparing it to hardcore when it obviously isnt the same.

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

And this game was supposed to be more friendly towards casual players lmao
Them putting in a resurrect limit on maps and exp loss still being in the game completely contradicts that and chases away so many players. Let people have their 6 portals already, or infinite portals I don't really care. An ARPG is a genre all about power fantasy and loot. It should be fun, not a constant vigilance playstyle where white mobs are raid bosses lol, we have enough dark souls clone games already.

What gave you the impression that it would be more friendly towards casuals? xD
And they alredy caved and gave you guys more portals for your maps, if they remove exp penalty aswell then there litterally is no punishment for dying repeatedly. Making defence pointless.

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

All this could just be solved with some sliders,checkmarks or difficulty options in the game. Let people play however they want, and for those who seek a """hard game""" they can play ssf hc ruthless whatever.

I bet you are one of those guys complaining on forums about elden ring not having a easy difficulty option xD

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

Again, forcing hardcore mechanics onto your softcore playerbase(which is like 95% of all your players btw) is really disgusting, and a really bad move for player retention. As we see by the numbers lmao

Once again its not hardcore, stop being disingenuous.

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Toforto#2372 が発言:

There is no real reason why exp loss is still in this game, its just "cus D2 had it" and some mysterious vague concept of """friction""" that means nothing. Dying already isn't fun, nobody needs the game to be kicking them while they're already down. Death penalties like exp loss are meaningless, they serve 0 purpose except to waste your time. So they should just delete exp loss.

Its in the game for the same reason why it or a similar mechanic exist in basicly every game. I would explain once again but you will never be able to understand it apperently.

I will explain to you what the problem actually is.
The problem is that your not good enough to complete the game, so you have convinced yourself that the reason isnt that your bad but that you need the last 10 levels. (even tho leveling from 90-100 only gives you like a 5% power increase). You then arent able to get those 10 skill points because your just chain dying, so once again you convince yourself that the problem isnt that your bad at the game and chain dying, its the fact that you lose exp on death so you cant get your last 5% power and finally beat a t15 map.

The game has alot of improvements it needs and we dont need you drowning out the useful constructive feedback with this sort of nonsense crying over exp loss day after day.

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SpankyKong#9805 が発言:

There are a couple of pieces of evidence actually. First, there are tons of threads of people complaining about it and saying this is the reason they stopped playing.

Second evidence visible in all POE leagues since the beginning - the majority of players choose to stop playing rather than stay engaged up to level 100. Do you deny this? Where is YOUR proof?

Your just missing a basic grasp of how the game works or your just intentionally being disingenuous.

Leveling to 100 takes a shit ton of time. It is a massive grind and gives you almost nothing in return. On my current character leveling to 100 would give me maybe a 5% power increase at best, and thats with very good gear to scale off. And the time investment I would need is hundreds of hours.
This is not a grind that is worth the time investment unless I want to do it as a challenge.
The fact that the majority of people quit before reaching level 100 is in no way shape or form proof that people quit because reaching level 100 is too hard or that they dislike exp loss. Its because people are done with the game before reaching level 100 and reaching level 100 in itself is entirely pointless outside of a personal challenge. Not everyone enjoys grinding for hudnreds of hours to reach level 100, that doesnt mean that the same people think that there shouldnt be a exp penalty. Your just making up your own facts to fit your narrative.

I could make the same argument in basicly every game made by just pointing at the steam achievements. OMG this game is bad, only 5% of players have unlocked all achievements in it, they must be quitting before getting all of them because they agree with me that this mechanic is bad.

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Kerchunk#7797 が発言:

Guy peak daily players on Steam for an 0.2 version of an Early Access with absolutely zero ongoing marketing isn't the death knell you think it is.

I didn't call it a death knell. The peak all-time players for POE 2 at launch is double the all-time best from POE 1. To now be falling in line with POE 1 numbers is unquestionably evidence of an opportunity being squandered.

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Kerchunk#7797 が発言:

They're sitting on a literal mountain of cash from launch and as soon as they feel like they're approaching 1.0 they're going to start burning through it - handing fat stacks to Twitch and TikTok and YouTube influencers with literally tens of millions of combined followers who are going to be hearing daily how PoE2 1.0 is a can't miss experience and I know you will have all sorts of reasons why this isn't going to work but go ahead and bookmark this thread and we can come back here after 1.0 drops and see who had the right of it.

This entire block of text is a literal imaginary fantasy scenario. "& then they ended world hunger" there I made it even better for you.

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SpankyKong#9805 が発言:

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LiMA6#0387 が発言:

I actually don't really play this league anymore, and it's not because of xp loss, it's simply because it's actually boring. People i talk to agree it's boring. None of the people i know of has complained to me about xp loss. People i know who start new chars, go from lvl1 to 90 within 2 days. poe2 is trash, for multitudes of other reasons, but most surely not xp loss.

People who get to level 90 in 2 days - is that supposed to be a good representation of the average/common player? This being your experience is a self report of being out-of-touch with most players.

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LiMA6#0387 が発言:

also, stop playing victim. telling you to figure out how to survive is not attacking. help was even offered. so its really pathetic.

You attacked earlier by saying players are playing like crap & there were some other things you have said. Telling people to stop dying does not in any way address the core complaint. The core complaint is, the demotivation of a death on the 31st map wiping out progress earned from the 30 maps before it.

"

LiMA6#0387 が発言:

i should also add that, they did one very sensible change with xp loss, removed it from special mechanics/bosses. this makes perfect sense to give people a chance to learn the mechanics than to avoid taking any boss fights until leveled.

You said it here yourself & don't even realize. The obvious consequence of XP loss is unwillingness to engage with the content.

if i play well, and have no gear, i will die
if i play bad, and have gear, i might still die
if i play good, and have gear, i wont die. (yes even with random things)

i certainly dont have the desire to play hardcore, just to challenge myself and learn the nitty gritty, but i certainly wont blame the game if i died in sc. responsibly speaking, i have myself to blame.

this game has survived for over a decade with xp loss, and that's enough proof there's no need for change here, if we aren't considering the logical perspectives or otherwise objective truths provided by multiple people here already.

so realistically speaking, you have only one choice, improve your game. improve your character. and keep playing, or maybe a 2nd choice: dont play.