GET RID OF XP LOSS! Not fun at all, bad game design!

i agree, EXP lose in this game is crazy bad, since its not a pvp game, u can make the game hard even without the exp lose, i literally lvl 91, i came home from work im dead tired, i have lots of games but i love poe2 so i play it instead of the others, yet beacause im tired i cant survive since i play archer with evasion build, i have skills and i dodge well, but when im tired i screw up a lot, and i basically died and lost progress, like wtf, i want to play and get progress, should i quit my job to be able to gain any progress? is this how it works? IS NOT HARD TO GET TO HIGH LVL, OPEN OP CHARACTER LIKE MONK AND EZ GAME< well i dont feel like it, i feel like playing something i like, my build melts t18 rooms beside hard bosses, but overall losing progress is crazy bad, also whats bad is the capacity of stash tabs, honestly i dont feel like payhing 100$ for stash tabs lol. i paid already enough. and its still not enough.

"

Kraythax#2592 が発言:

"

Orion_3T#9801 が発言:

"

argoniashawks#7828 が発言:

It has thrived as a game design for 12 years it's not going anywhere.

Another tired comment people keep repeating.

You don't know how much more or less successful it would have been without this.

For many players it is highly off-putting. If it had never been there and other appropriate systems were in place to make death undesirable in more reasonable ways, nobody would be arguing for it to be added.

And it might well be getting changed if you listen carefully to GGG's latest interview. Much more likely than the 1 portal per map anyway.

So you want a game with no challenges of any kind ... got it.

I have not said that anywhere, in fact I specifically included the caveat that death should be meaningful.

Why is it people defending the XP loss constantly have to straw man people arguing against it with this "You just don't want any challenge" straw man?

The XP loss sacrifices challenging gameplay in exchange for easy gameplay and time consuming progression. I like challenging gameplay. I loved Sekiro and other games that do challenge well. I don't like being restricted to super-safe grinding gameplay.

Differentiate challenging gameplay from time consuming progression and the reasoning should become clear.

"

Orion_3T#9801 が発言:

The XP loss sacrifices challenging gameplay in exchange for easy gameplay and time consuming progression. I like challenging gameplay. I loved Sekiro and other games that do challenge well. I don't like being restricted to super-safe grinding gameplay.

So you mean Sekiro where you lose 50% of current XP and money on death without any possibility to get that back? Oh and you can also make any NPC sick so you can't progrees their quest lines until you cure them.

I dont have so much a problem with xp loss but the fact that it applies to EVERY content.

The issue is, that once I get past a certain point, I simply stop doing anything else which is potentially deadly until I got that level. I mean there are so many things in the game which simply kill you if you make one minor mistake, even if you survive in mapping just fine.

Just lost 10% in a Simulacrum because my minions died and I not only lost the superexepensive key but also hours of work in form of the progress.

I regret that I brocke this rule, got double punished and now I just had to stop this, because I'm too frustrated to continue with the game. This is just a big waste of time

"

Sakanabi#6664 が発言:

"

Orion_3T#9801 が発言:

The XP loss sacrifices challenging gameplay in exchange for easy gameplay and time consuming progression. I like challenging gameplay. I loved Sekiro and other games that do challenge well. I don't like being restricted to super-safe grinding gameplay.

So you mean Sekiro where you lose 50% of current XP and money on death without any possibility to get that back? Oh and you can also make any NPC sick so you can't progrees their quest lines until you cure them.

Yes, that Sekiro. The one with the exciting and challenging gameplay where you would prepare yourself before going through fog gates to discover the next challenge. And you had stealth as an option to take things slowly and carefully if you didn't know the area.

It has been a long time since I played so maybe there are some rose tinted specs going on. I brought it up to counter the claim I just don't like challenge but it's true the penalties in that game were pretty brutal. The gameplay was absolutely what made it great, I'd say I loved it despite those harsh penalties not because of them.

In fairness there is an apparent disparity there between how I feel about Sekiro and my criticisms of the death penalty in POE2 and ARPGs in general. But I think it's because they are only superficially similar. I think the dynamic felt very different because most of your progression came from deterministic things found in the game by accessing the next area, beyond the current challenges you were facing.

You knew that if you could beat the current challenge there would be something good waiting for you in the next area. That made it worthwhile to accept a pause in skill point progression while you learned to defeat that challenge. I don't recall 'levelling' really being either a focus or an issue. It was something that kinda happened alongside the main progression of getting to new areas and accessing non-random upgrades/tools.

In short, Sekiro made up for the brutal losses on death by having amazing gameplay and deterministic rewards for overcoming carefully tailored challenges. Also, while the initial death could be absolutely horrific, each subsequent death likely cost you less than the last. Which once you got your head around it did allow you to keep trying.

ARPGs however have completely random loot. There isn't any solid incentive to push the difficulty other than the gameplay and XP. Plus the encounters are random, the thing that just killed you might not be encountered again for 100 maps or more.

Also, Sekiro was a final release and FromSoft had no history of changing games based on player feedback. There was plenty of outcry about its difficulty. POE2 is an EA release of a Live Service game and a developer who seems willing to incorporate feedback. So again, very different context.

I could probably write a lot more about this but the point was there is a huge difference between finding the XP loss annoying and frustrating and unnecessary and "just not wanting any challenge".

10% XP lose just forces safe boring gameplay i stopped at 80 and will try after the patch to see if anything changes, no loot drops, gear too expensive, unseen one shots, defences, crazy damage etc

If they want the XP penalty fine, just keep it to the current map. die and the XP for that map is gone.

Atleast the player can them decide whether to push and risk progress or play it safe and slow.

Choice is a good thing yes? and surely this keeps both hardcore and more "casual" players content. Choice is good design

We are basically testing the game so respec costs should be drastically reduced and then adjusted on full release. Whats the issue there?

I find it amusing that they introduce more portals to bosses ergo lessening the penalty yet do not change anything on regular maps. I dont see any hardcore players complaining about that making the game "easier" or less challenging. Stinks of gatekeeping to me.

That decision tells me who in the player base the devs are pandering to, that doesnt fill me with optimism for the long term future of the game

"

dwqrf#0717 が発言:

"

FruitLord#0833 が発言:

I feel that despite them stating they are firm on the XP loss they will do something about it over the next few months. It is causing a lot of player frustration and for what? You can't throw your body into content over and over because there is only 1 portal anyway. Gaining a level doesn't help the player too much at 90+ while removing XP feels horrible. And removing it doesn't remove any challenge from the game. The game will still be killing you. You will still be failing and need to figure out why.

Yes, and then the exact same people will complain about the next thing, and the next thing, and the next thing, because there is always something horrible that makes the game frustating, unfun, tedious, time-consuming and unplayable for them ; but it's always a problem with the game design, obviously.

The slippery slope argument is not convincing in this case.

Firstly, it's based entirely on an unjustified hypothetical. I don't at all get the impression that most people arguing against XP loss just don't want any challenge or for deaths to become meaningless.

Speaking for myself, I argue against the XP loss but it's pretty much my only specific gripe with the game. Sure there are other things that may need tweaking but I like the other systems they have in place to make death meaningful - waystone sustain, opportunity loss, even items you can see on the floor being lost. Those start and end with each specific map, they don't remove your progress from previous maps like XP loss does.

Secondly, as always, each issue should be determined on its own merits. There are no floodgates here, GGG are too focused for that. They definitely want to keep death meaningful and I agree with them on that. The question is how to retain that while maximising enjoyment of the game.

"

tarloch#1873 が発言:

If they want the XP penalty fine, just keep it to the current map. die and the XP for that map is gone.

I would personally be fine with this. Everything on the current map could be at risk. But at least when trying a map you aren't risking the last X maps you successfully completed.

You could never come out of a map worse off than when you went in. That's what sucks the fun from it and causes frustration.

"

hboi#6131 が発言:

The game is just not for you. Stop trying to change it

The game is in Beta and the developers are requesting feedback. Stop telling people not to give feedback.

"

dwqrf#0717 が発言:

"

Akedomo#3573 が発言:

If you're going to continue not reading my responses, I'll just have to stop responding to you, because it feels intentional at this point. Not sure what I did to deserve this treatment from you.

It's funny that a lot of people treat you like that but it's always other people's fault, never yours. You are truly unlucky to be targeted like that for no reasons whatsoever !

It's not just them, it is very common on these threads for people to strawman anyone arguing against XP loss as "You just don't want any challenge!". And in the vast majority of cases, as in this one, it's utterly untrue.

To the point I'm sure quite at least some of them are trolling, but I always try to respond as if it's just a genuine misunderstanding.